Open sourcing SoundPlay?

[Ryan Leavengood]

Has anyone ever asked Marco Nelissen if he would open source SoundPlay?

I ask because I saw a recent bug where SoundPlay's buttons don't
appear on recent Haiku revisions and it made me think such things
would be easier to fix if it was open source.

It is such a classic BeOS application and it would be a shame to see
it lost to history as Haiku moves forward.

If anyone has Marco's email please let me know privately.

--
Regards,
Ryan

[Kenneth]

On 9/8/2012 12:42 AM, Ryan Leavengood wrote:
> Has anyone ever asked Marco Nelissen if he would open source SoundPlay?
>
> I ask because I saw a recent bug where SoundPlay's buttons don't
> appear on recent Haiku revisions and it made me think such things
> would be easier to fix if it was open source.
>
> It is such a classic BeOS application and it would be a shame to see
> it lost to history as Haiku moves forward.
>
> If anyone has Marco's email please let me know privately.
>

Before contacting Marco about open sourcing SoundPlay, you should try
contacting him first about fixing the bug. Only after several of those
requests go unanswered, I would consider contacting him to open source
the code.
I believe that is the courteous path to take.

Marco has given some of his software to open source before (Pe), but as
far as I can tell, he still has SoundPlay for sale.
I paid for SoundPlay not so long ago, and received my keyfile from him,
so keep in mind he might still be willing to fix bugs.

Cheers,
- Kit

[kallisti5]

On 2012-09-08 8:46 am, Kenneth wrote:
> On 9/8/2012 12:42 AM, Ryan Leavengood wrote:
>> Has anyone ever asked Marco Nelissen if he would open source
>> SoundPlay?
>>
>> I ask because I saw a recent bug where SoundPlay's buttons don't
>> appear on recent Haiku revisions and it made me think such things
>> would be easier to fix if it was open source.
>>
>> It is such a classic BeOS application and it would be a shame to see
>> it lost to history as Haiku moves forward.
>>
>> If anyone has Marco's email please let me know privately.
>>
>
> Marco has given some of his software to open source before (Pe), but
> as far as I can tell, he still has SoundPlay for sale.
> I paid for SoundPlay not so long ago, and received my keyfile from
> him, so keep in mind he might still be willing to fix bugs.

"
I'm no longer accepting SoundPlay registrations, but you can download a
free keyfile here. Copy to /boot/home/config/settings, then restart
SoundPlay.
"

Thats right off his website... but of course it's his choice :)

-- Alex

[Oliver Tappe]

Hi,

On 2012-09-08 at 15:46:36 [+0200], Kenneth <kervas-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
[ ... ]
>
> Marco has given some of his software to open source before (Pe), but as
> far as I can tell, he still has SoundPlay for sale.

you're probably confusing Marco with Maarten Hekkelman here, who is the
original author of Pe.

cheers,
Oliver

[scottmc]

> Marco has given some of his software to open source before (Pe), but as far
> as I can tell, he still has SoundPlay for sale.
> I paid for SoundPlay not so long ago, and received my keyfile from him, so
> keep in mind he might still be willing to fix bugs.
>

No. Pe was written by Maarten Hekkelman:
http://hg.berlios.de/repos/pe-editor/file/f5f62b773334/Read%20Me

-scottmc

[Kenneth]

On 9/8/2012 10:53 AM, scottmc wrote:
>
>>>> Marco has given some of his software to open source before (Pe), but as far
>>>> as I can tell, he still has SoundPlay for sale.
>>>> I paid for SoundPlay not so long ago, and received my keyfile from him, so
>>>> keep in mind he might still be willing to fix bugs.
>>> " I'm no longer accepting SoundPlay registrations, but you can
>>> download a free keyfile here. Copy to /boot/home/config/settings,
>>> then restart SoundPlay. " Thats right off his website... but of
>>> course it's his choice :) -- Alex
>>
>>
>> you're probably confusing Marco with Maarten Hekkelman here, who is the
>> original author of Pe.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Oliver
>
> No. Pe was written by Maarten Hekkelman:
> http://hg.berlios.de/repos/pe-editor/file/f5f62b773334/Read%20Me
>
> -scottmc

Alex, Oliver, Scott, and Ryan,

I stand corrected, on both accounts, and I do so humbly.

I'll now go stand in a corner. :P


To be fair, my purchase of SoundPlay was indeed closer to now, than to
1998, which is the last date listed on that webpage.
I'm also pretty sure that I've seen Marco sometimes hang around on IRC.
On the other hand, my personal timescale is probably more fuzzy than I
realize, given my previous mistake.

Still, in any case, I am pretty sure that Marco has been around during
the Haiku "era", so it still might be worth it trying to contact him.


On the other mistake, about confusing Marco and Maarten, now that is
unforgivable.

Sorry :(

Cheers,
- Kit

[Kit]

On 9/8/2012 10:53 AM, scottmc wrote:
>
>>>> Marco has given some of his software to open source before (Pe), but as far
>>>> as I can tell, he still has SoundPlay for sale.
>>>> I paid for SoundPlay not so long ago, and received my keyfile from him, so
>>>> keep in mind he might still be willing to fix bugs.
>>> " I'm no longer accepting SoundPlay registrations, but you can
>>> download a free keyfile here. Copy to /boot/home/config/settings,
>>> then restart SoundPlay. " Thats right off his website... but of
>>> course it's his choice :) -- Alex
>>
>>
>> you're probably confusing Marco with Maarten Hekkelman here, who is the
>> original author of Pe.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Oliver
>
> No. Pe was written by Maarten Hekkelman:
> http://hg.berlios.de/repos/pe-editor/file/f5f62b773334/Read%20Me
>
> -scottmc

Alex, Oliver, Scott, and Ryan,

I stand corrected, on both accounts, and I do so humbly.

I'll now go stand in a corner. :P


To be fair, my purchase of SoundPlay was indeed closer to now, than to
1998, which is the date listed on that webpage.

I'm also pretty sure that I've seen Marco sometimes hang around on IRC.
On the other hand, my personal timescale is probably more fuzzy than I
realize, given my previous mistake.

Still, in any case, I am pretty sure that Marco has been around during
the Haiku "era", so it still might be worth it trying to contact him.


On the other mistake, about confusing Marco and Maarten, now that is
unforgivable.

Sorry :(

Cheers,
- Kit

P.S. Next thing you know, GoBe will stop selling Productive too, and
give away its serial for free... :)

[Axel Dörfler]

Am 08.09.2012 15:46, schrieb Kenneth:
> Before contacting Marco about open sourcing SoundPlay, you should try
> contacting him first about fixing the bug. Only after several of those
> requests go unanswered, I would consider contacting him to open source
> the code.
> I believe that is the courteous path to take.

It's probably being caused by a bug in Haiku, not SoundPlay, though.
Ryan was asking as having its source around would ease fixing the bug in
Haiku.

Bye,
Axel.

[Dennis Catt]

I actually sent an email to Marco myself concerning the bug, but he
hasn't replied back and I have asked him myself in the past what does
the future hold for SoundPlay.

Dennis

On 9/9/12, Axel Dörfler <axeld-Rd02jAPjeE1dgG6+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Am 08.09.2012 15:46, schrieb Kenneth:
>> Before contacting Marco about open sourcing SoundPlay, you should try
>> contacting him first about fixing the bug. Only after several of those
>> requests go unanswered, I would consider contacting him to open source
>> the code.
>> I believe that is the courteous path to take.
>
> It's probably being caused by a bug in Haiku, not SoundPlay, though.
> Ryan was asking as having its source around would ease fixing the bug in
> Haiku.
>
> Bye,
> Axel.
>
>

[Brian Hague]

For those not in the know, SoundPlay was one of the killer apps from the
90's (versus PlaySound which was not a killer app). I remember listening to
Cher sing "like a virgin" by pitching Madonna down a notch...

[Charlie Clark]

Am 11.09.2012, 02:50 Uhr, schrieb Dennis Catt <dcatt.haiku-***@public.gmane.org>:

> I actually sent an email to Marco myself concerning the bug, but he
> hasn't replied back and I have asked him myself in the past what does
> the future hold for SoundPlay.

Dustware?

Charlie
--
Charlie Clark
Kronenstr. 27a
Düsseldorf
D- 40217
Germany
Tel: [phone]
Mobile: [phone]

[Dennis Catt]

If Marco is not going to maintain it anymore, maybe he'd be willing to
give it to the Haiku project for future maintenance?

On 9/12/12, Charlie Clark <charlie-6bEcJwdP2pR+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Am 11.09.2012, 02:50 Uhr, schrieb Dennis Catt <dcatt.haiku-***@public.gmane.org>:
>
>> I actually sent an email to Marco myself concerning the bug, but he
>> hasn't replied back and I have asked him myself in the past what does
>> the future hold for SoundPlay.
>
> Dustware?
>
> Charlie
> --
> Charlie Clark
> Kronenstr. 27a
> Düsseldorf
> D- 40217
> Germany
> Tel: [phone]
> Mobile: [phone]
>
>

[Ryan Leavengood]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:03 PM, Dennis Catt <dcatt.haiku-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> If Marco is not going to maintain it anymore, maybe he'd be willing to
> give it to the Haiku project for future maintenance?

I emailed Marco on Saturday based on an email address I received
privately, but he has not responded. I asked about open sourcing
SoundPlay or if that is not an option if it would be possible to give
the source privately to one of us to maintain, as you suggest above.

I'm sure he is busy and BeOS and Haiku are not something he has a big
interest in anymore. But maybe he will respond to my email eventually.

--
Regards,
Ryan

[kallisti5]

On 2012-09-09 3:44 pm, Axel Dörfler wrote:
> Am 08.09.2012 15:46, schrieb Kenneth:
>> Before contacting Marco about open sourcing SoundPlay, you should
>> try
>> contacting him first about fixing the bug. Only after several of
>> those
>> requests go unanswered, I would consider contacting him to open
>> source
>> the code.
>> I believe that is the courteous path to take.
>
> It's probably being caused by a bug in Haiku, not SoundPlay, though.
> Ryan was asking as having its source around would ease fixing the bug
> in Haiku.

Not sure if it's relevant, but I found this trying to get ideas from
the
media kit for hardware GL:

http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/tree/src/kits/media/!missing_symbols.cpp
"// SoundPlay 4.8 is evil, uses undocumented media kit API"

Those undocumented api's are currently #if 0'ed out.

-- Alex

[François Revol]

On 19/09/2012 22:14, kallisti5 wrote:
> On 2012-09-09 3:44 pm, Axel Dörfler wrote:
>> Am 08.09.2012 15:46, schrieb Kenneth:
>>> Before contacting Marco about open sourcing SoundPlay, you should try
>>> contacting him first about fixing the bug. Only after several of those
>>> requests go unanswered, I would consider contacting him to open source
>>> the code.
>>> I believe that is the courteous path to take.
>>
>> It's probably being caused by a bug in Haiku, not SoundPlay, though.
>> Ryan was asking as having its source around would ease fixing the bug
>> in Haiku.
>
> Not sure if it's relevant, but I found this trying to get ideas from the
> media kit for hardware GL:
>
> http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/tree/src/kits/media/!missing_symbols.cpp
> "// SoundPlay 4.8 is evil, uses undocumented media kit API"
>
> Those undocumented api's are currently #if 0'ed out.

Marco ended up using those to skip ffdecoder in BeOS due to a supposed
but it contained but which I never got a report for...

François.

[Brian Hague]

I think I met Marco at the BeDC in 1996 or 1997... I tried the email I got
from him back then, but it came back failed. I'll try another one I have
for him from BGA... at this point I'm not sure he's available... bus factor
of 1?

-- alphaseinor --

[Sean Collins]

Brian Hague wrote:
> I think I met Marco at the BeDC in 1996 or 1997... I tried the email I
> got from him back then, but it came back failed. I'll try another one
> I have for him from BGA... at this point I'm not sure he's
> available... bus factor of 1?
>
> -- alphaseinor --
As much as I like soundplay, the current mediaplayer code is pretty
good, but CD/DVD/Streaming/Internet Streaming support are currently
missing. If those features were added to Mediaplayer/Mediakit, then the
need for Soundplay would diminish, plus a bit of debugging, though
mediaplayer runs pretty solid these days.

Sean

[Ryan Leavengood]

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Sean Collins <smc.collins-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> As much as I like soundplay, the current mediaplayer code is pretty good,
> but CD/DVD/Streaming/Internet Streaming support are currently missing. If
> those features were added to Mediaplayer/Mediakit, then the need for
> Soundplay would diminish, plus a bit of debugging, though mediaplayer runs
> pretty solid these days.

Does SoundPlay even play streaming media?

Either way we will indeed need support for streaming in the Media Kit,
even just for HTML5 audio and video. Plus I personally like internet
radio quite a bit.

Anyhow, you do make a good point that MediaPlayer is a fine music
player. Probably my main motivation for wanting to keep SoundPlay
going is a bit of BeOS nostalgia, which maybe we already have enough
of that in other applications which have already been open sourced.

--
Regards,
Ryan

[scottmc]

> Does SoundPlay even play streaming media?
>

The cool thing about SoundPlay were all of the plugins.
BeInYourStereo for example allowed you to remotely queue up your music
via robinhood and php, to stream via SoundPlay, i forget if another
plugin was used for the streaming or if that was built in. I used to
use it to stream my music from home and listen to it at work, 12+
years ago, that's before the cloud days. ;)

Anyone know if our Poorman can be extended to run with PHP?

-scottmc

[Brian Hague]

Might talk with Dane Scott, beos radio used soundplay... Iirc

[Sean Collins]

Brian Hague wrote:
>
> Might talk with Dane Scott, beos radio used soundplay... Iirc
>
I would ping Dane, I think TuneTracker may have acquired soundplay
sometime ago

Sean

[Sean Collins]

Ryan Leavengood wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Sean Collins <smc.collins-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> As much as I like soundplay, the current mediaplayer code is pretty good,
>> but CD/DVD/Streaming/Internet Streaming support are currently missing. If
>> those features were added to Mediaplayer/Mediakit, then the need for
>> Soundplay would diminish, plus a bit of debugging, though mediaplayer runs
>> pretty solid these days.
>>
>
> Does SoundPlay even play streaming media?
>
> Either way we will indeed need support for streaming in the Media Kit,
> even just for HTML5 audio and video. Plus I personally like internet
> radio quite a bit.
>
> Anyhow, you do make a good point that MediaPlayer is a fine music
> player. Probably my main motivation for wanting to keep SoundPlay
> going is a bit of BeOS nostalgia, which maybe we already have enough
> of that in other applications which have already been open sourced.
>
>
Soundplay does play some formats of streaming internet broadcast, I
think PLS iirc. Anyways, the days of those being available are becoming
slim. Having a mediaplayer and or Pandora client would be monumentally
awesome to.

Sean

[hey68 you]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Luposian]

Hopefully, this is the correct place to be asking for assistance.

I am using an Acer Aspire 5560-7414 laptop, with an 8Gb PNY Attache’ USB stick, running Lubuntu 12.04.

I can build Haiku64 fine, at least from the look of it. The tools build fine and the JAM goes through without any critical errors.

I have formatted my USB stick as ReiserFS, to avoid the “xattr issue”, mentioned in one of the docs online.

When I build a CD .iso, the boot panics at the 4th icon.

When I build an Anyboot image, I can’t load it into k3b, to create a CD-R of it. If I try to load it, after starting k3b, k3b crashes.

Not sure why my images are not working. Xyzzy’s Anyboot image (produced on an Intel Mac, I think; image has a MacOS X ID, as stated in k3b) works fine with k3b.

Any and all help/advice is greatly appreciated.

If someone has step-by-step instructs for building Haiku64 from within Haiku32, this would also be of great help, if no other suggestions work.

[Gerasim Troeglazov]

In cl-amp has a few problems: crash when changing the skin, can not be used
on Haiku gcc4 builds.

I've already started writing a cl-amp player clone.
While the process in the beginning, but some important parts are already
implemented.
The code will be available under a BSD / MIT license.

>Just my 2 cents ... CL-Amp 3.71 works on Haiku .
>There are ways to control it remotely (see for example my javascript and
>python http://www.bebits.com/app/4551)
>
>You can listen to Shoutcast streams.
>
>It has a nice plug-in developer kit (I used it to write a Cover Art plugin:
>http://haikuware.com/remository/view-details/multimedia/audio/playback/cover-art-display-plugin-for-cl-amp)
>{not working on later Haiku's - I have to debug},
>
>It can also convert Shoutcast streams to .wav files on the fly. There are
>some digital effects still available, and on BeOS I was able to use cortex
>to add VST plugins.
>
>I wouldn't mind also trying to get this open-sourced.
>
>Regards,
>hey68you

[Baurzhan Muftakhidinov]

Your player won't be Qt-based, right?

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Gerasim Troeglazov <3deyes-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> In cl-amp has a few problems: crash when changing the skin, can not be used
> on Haiku gcc4 builds.
>
> I've already started writing a cl-amp player clone.
> While the process in the beginning, but some important parts are already
> implemented.
> The code will be available under a BSD / MIT license.
>
>>Just my 2 cents ... CL-Amp 3.71 works on Haiku .
>>There are ways to control it remotely (see for example my javascript and
>>python http://www.bebits.com/app/4551)
>>
>>You can listen to Shoutcast streams.
>>
>>It has a nice plug-in developer kit (I used it to write a Cover Art plugin:
>>http://haikuware.com/remository/view-details/multimedia/audio/playback/cover-art-display-plugin-for-cl-amp)
>>{not working on later Haiku's - I have to debug},
>>
>>It can also convert Shoutcast streams to .wav files on the fly. There are
>>some digital effects still available, and on BeOS I was able to use cortex
>>to add VST plugins.
>>
>>I wouldn't mind also trying to get this open-sourced.
>>
>>Regards,
>>hey68you
>
>

[Gerasim Troeglazov]

It will be a native application. Modular architecture.
Ability to write GUI interface modules. (winamp2 like, native, command
line, etc.)

2012/9/20 Baurzhan Muftakhidinov <baurthefirst-***@public.gmane.org>

> Your player won't be Qt-based, right?

[hey68 you]

CL-Amp also working for me by replacing the EXRTranslator on a
somewhat recent nightly 44384 (not just A3).

Thanks,
hey68you

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:06 PM, hey68 you <hey68you-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> @Gerasim: I think the CL-Amp crash is due to a know issue with the
> EXRTranslator:
>
> The following work-around works for me (it also fixes the crashNet Penguin)
>
> replace the file /boot/system/add-ons/Translators/EXRTranslator that
> is included in Alpha 3 with the one included with Alpha 2
>
> I can send you the old EXRTranslator file if you need it.
>
> Regards,
> hey68you
>
> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Gerasim Troeglazov <3deyes-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> It will be a native application. Modular architecture.
>> Ability to write GUI interface modules. (winamp2 like, native, command line, etc.)
>>
>>
>> 2012/9/20 Baurzhan Muftakhidinov <baurthefirst-***@public.gmane.org>
>>>
>>> Your player won't be Qt-based, right?
>>
>>

[hey68 you]

@Gerasim: I think the CL-Amp crash is due to a know issue with the
EXRTranslator:

The following work-around works for me (it also fixes the crashNet Penguin)

replace the file /boot/system/add-ons/Translators/EXRTranslator that
is included in Alpha 3 with the one included with Alpha 2

I can send you the old EXRTranslator file if you need it.

Regards,
hey68you

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Gerasim Troeglazov <3deyes-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> It will be a native application. Modular architecture.
> Ability to write GUI interface modules. (winamp2 like, native, command line, etc.)
>
>
> 2012/9/20 Baurzhan Muftakhidinov <baurthefirst-***@public.gmane.org>
>>
>> Your player won't be Qt-based, right?
>
>

[Stephan Aßmus]

Am 20.09.2012 12:40, schrieb Gerasim Troeglazov:
> It will be a native application. Modular architecture.
> Ability to write GUI interface modules. (winamp2 like, native, command
> line, etc.)

There is already a lot of blood and sweat in MediaPlayer. Why not
improve that one instead? (Nothing against choice, but given the limited
overall resources in the Haiku world... ;-)

Best regards,
-Stephan

[kallisti5]

On 2012-09-20 8:50 am, Stephan Aßmus wrote:
> Am 20.09.2012 12:40, schrieb Gerasim Troeglazov:
>> It will be a native application. Modular architecture.
>> Ability to write GUI interface modules. (winamp2 like, native,
>> command
>> line, etc.)
>
> There is already a lot of blood and sweat in MediaPlayer. Why not
> improve that one instead? (Nothing against choice, but given the
> limited overall resources in the Haiku world... ;-)

+1 We have the infrastructure done... we just need feet on the ground
to
enhance media player :D

[Ryan Leavengood]

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:22 PM, kallisti5 <kallisti5-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> +1 We have the infrastructure done... we just need feet on the ground to
> enhance media player :D

While overall this makes sense, there is a cold reality which can be a
problem for core Haiku applications: most of the Haiku developers want
to keep them simple and focused. While this is generally a good idea,
it means that more unusual features such as skinning support for
MediaPlayer would not be easily accepted into mainline Haiku.

So it may make some sense for someone to develop something on their
own. They then don't have to have every little feature approved by
other Haiku developers (which in general I think is both a help
sometimes yet also sometimes a hindrance.)

--
Regards,
Ryan

[Gerasim Troeglazov]

IMHO media player and audio player are two different programs. Different in
concept interface, and many other features.
Improve existing media player of course necessary.

2012/9/21 kallisti5 <kallisti5-***@public.gmane.org>

> On 2012-09-20 8:50 am, Stephan Aßmus wrote:
>
>> Am 20.09.2012 12:40, schrieb Gerasim Troeglazov:
>>
>>> It will be a native application. Modular architecture.
>>> Ability to write GUI interface modules. (winamp2 like, native, command
>>> line, etc.)
>>>
>>
>> There is already a lot of blood and sweat in MediaPlayer. Why not
>> improve that one instead? (Nothing against choice, but given the
>> limited overall resources in the Haiku world... ;-)
>>
>
> +1 We have the infrastructure done... we just need feet on the ground to
> enhance media player :D
>
>

[Sean Collins]

Gerasim Troeglazov wrote:
> IMHO media player and audio player are two different programs.
> Different in concept interface, and many other features.
> Improve existing media player of course necessary.
>
I don't really see the difference, what users want is a simple, easy
to use, feature complete media resource. It would be awesome if Haiku
came with a fully featured media player similar to window mediaplayer 8
or 9.

It also eases the barrier to entry for new users.

off topic for a minute since your actually on the list. Have you
looked into the media features for QT ? Theres a bunch of nice media
applications that could be brought over.


Sean

[Gerasim Troeglazov]

About qt. I've heard a lot of negative statements about the port of qt.
They say it would end up killing the initiative to write native
applications, etc. )))

This qt players work fine under Haiku, but isn't native applications:
http://qt-haiku.ru/images/rsgallery/original/cuberok-0.0.11_ffmpeg_sdl_backend.png
http://qt-haiku.ru/images/rsgallery/original/QMPlay2.png
http://qt-haiku.ru/images/rsgallery/original/Clementine.png

I make native MediaKit output modules for cuberok and QMPlay2.

PS: I'll write own player in any way. Because I want to do it. ))

2012/9/21 Sean Collins <smc.collins-***@public.gmane.org>

> Gerasim Troeglazov wrote:
>
>> IMHO media player and audio player are two different programs. Different
>> in concept interface, and many other features.
>> Improve existing media player of course necessary.
>>
>> I don't really see the difference, what users want is a simple, easy
> to use, feature complete media resource. It would be awesome if Haiku came
> with a fully featured media player similar to window mediaplayer 8 or 9.
>
> It also eases the barrier to entry for new users.
>
> off topic for a minute since your actually on the list. Have you looked
> into the media features for QT ? Theres a bunch of nice media applications
> that could be brought over.
>
>
> Sean
>
>

[Sean Collins]

Gerasim Troeglazov wrote:
> About qt. I've heard a lot of negative statements about the port of
> qt. They say it would end up killing the initiative to write native
> applications, etc. )))
>
> This qt players work fine under Haiku, but isn't native applications:
> http://qt-haiku.ru/images/rsgallery/original/cuberok-0.0.11_ffmpeg_sdl_backend.png
> http://qt-haiku.ru/images/rsgallery/original/QMPlay2.png
> http://qt-haiku.ru/images/rsgallery/original/Clementine.png
>
> I make native MediaKit output modules for cuberok and QMPlay2.
>
> PS: I'll write own player in any way. Because I want to do it. ))
>
>

No harm done in having QT imho, Those Mediakit output modules, are those
something that could be used for other applications ? the QT based
Tractor DAW would be a great addition to the Haiku ecosystem, if it had
a way to be built. Anyways since the project is short on developers, the
users will clamor for any software they can get.

Thank you for the hardwork on the porting effort, and do you plan to do
a new release of QT with Alpha4 ? Also does the recent webkit update
help with any of the bugs in the Qtwebkit, or for updating the port ?

Sorry for all the questions.


Sean

[Siarzhuk Zharski]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Stephan Aßmus]

Hi Siarzhuk,

Am 21.09.2012 09:19, schrieb Siarzhuk Zharski:
> Audio playback possibility is a useful feature for the Video player, but
> video playback support is usually overkill for the Audio player.
> Listening is mainly background process - and it is critical to free as
> much resources for foreground applications as possible.

MediaPlayer does adopt it's resources to the current usage scenario. It
could always have an unused video node setup running, but I did
implement it to only setup what it needs.

As you point out yourself, a video player shares functionality with an
audio player. So when you have two separate tools, by your own
definition, you waste resources because of redundant functionality
implemented in both applications. It's wasted on your harddrive and it
most certainly is as soon as you pause the audio player to watch a video
in the other, separate video tool...

>> It would be awesome if Haiku came with a fully featured media player
>> similar to window
>> mediaplayer 8 or 9.
>
> We can eat soup, pasta and ice-cream with the same big spoon, but most
> of us prefer to have knife, fork and dessert spoon at the hand to enjoy
> the launch.

The physical big spoon is unable to adopt itself to your needs. A piece
of software doesn't need to have this restriction. MediaPlayer is
capable of adopting itself to the way you use it, and it already does.
It scales from a small window used for audio playback, in fact very
similar to SoundPlay's interface, to full screen video playback, even
doubling the controls in size to accomodate the likely viewing distance.
It even behaves differently in terms of storing settings depending on
what you used it for.

What MediaPlayer lacks is not the ability to down-scale to the audio
player's needs, but it lacks streaming capabilities to listen to
Internet radio, and it doesn't offer much in terms of managing the media
library. And the streaming features would best be added into the
MediaKit. It's a waste of developer resources to implement this in a
separate application. That's what I was talking about.

Best regards,
-Stephan

[Siarzhuk Zharski]

Hi Stephan,

Stephan Aßmus писал 21.09.2012 10:13:
> As you point out yourself, a video player shares functionality with
> an audio player. So when you have two separate tools, by your own
> definition, you waste resources because of redundant functionality
> implemented in both applications. It's wasted on your harddrive and
> it
> most certainly is as soon as you pause the audio player to watch a
> video in the other, separate video tool...

Somebody already spent the most significant resource he ever has - the
time of his life to implement separate audio player. Comparing to this
waste - some extra megabytes on my drive is nothing. But I understand
your point and could agree with it. See below for my point, please.

> The physical big spoon is unable to adopt itself to your needs.

I remember in the Army we have to adopted all our eating needs to "big
spoons". ;-) Well, associative thinking is weak, you are right.

> What MediaPlayer lacks is

The problem with stock applications is that everybody looks on you and
have it's own meaning about your ideas and solutions. Starting, for
example, easy feature discussion can put you into the swamp of endless
e-mailings and explanations. Frankly speaking, I do not understand "yet
another player" idea too, but, may be Gerasim has intention to make
something innovative that can be later "upstreamed". Let see. Anyway he
doesn't borrow time from the Media Player development because he doesn't
"sign" to do it.

--
Kind Regards,
S.Zharski

[Stephan Aßmus]

Hi,

Am 21.09.2012 12:07, schrieb Siarzhuk Zharski:
> The problem with stock applications is that everybody looks on you and
> have it's own meaning about your ideas and solutions. Starting, for
> example, easy feature discussion can put you into the swamp of endless
> e-mailings and explanations.

MediaPlayer already is a stock application. Not having one is no option
either. And I don't see a great deal of feature requests that wouldn't
fit well, or a lot of discussion and opposite opinions...

> Frankly speaking, I do not understand "yet
> another player" idea too, but, may be Gerasim has intention to make
> something innovative that can be later "upstreamed". Let see. Anyway he
> doesn't borrow time from the Media Player development because he doesn't
> "sign" to do it.

Gerasim is free to do as he pleases, of course. But before it never
occured to him he could actually add features to the Haiku Media Kit or
MediaPlayer, I rather make that suggestion. Any help is certainly
appreciated. It is sometimes hard to delve into an existing code base.
But writing something from scratch also takes a lot of effort for it to
reach a state where it becomes relevant. So extending something that
already exists may have its appeal.

Best regards,
-Stephan

[Gerasim Troeglazov]

I understand your arguments. But then, what we are discussing here?
Following your logic SoundPlay and CL-Amp is not needed. Why write letters
to authors and request open source or fix our problems ?
Now I'm learning to write DSP effects. I thought that writing a player will
be a good practice. Some audio processing modules are most likely to be
re-written as mediakit addons. ex. Equlizer, Stereo Enhancer, Pitch etc.

About QT and the question asked above: the new build based on 4.8.3
release for alpha4 will be available next week.

[Sean Collins]

Gerasim Troeglazov wrote:
>
> About QT and the question asked above: the new build based on 4.8.3
> release for alpha4 will be available next week.
This is awesome news. Will it have a more updated QTwebkit ?

As to your other comments, I understand your motivation. Have you
considered looking at the dsp plugins used by VST, LDAP and the other
open formats ? Would be very neat to have those available, and would be
good practice to boot.

Sean

[Gerasim Troeglazov]

VST is a proprietary format. To compile the plugins required Steinberg SDK,
which can not be included in the projects.
LADSPA or LV2 much better.

2012/9/23 Sean Collins <smc.collins-***@public.gmane.org>

> Gerasim Troeglazov wrote:
>
>>
>> About QT and the question asked above: the new build based on 4.8.3
>> release for alpha4 will be available next week.
>>
> This is awesome news. Will it have a more updated QTwebkit ?
>
> As to your other comments, I understand your motivation. Have you
> considered looking at the dsp plugins used by VST, LDAP and the other open
> formats ? Would be very neat to have those available, and would be good
> practice to boot.
>
> Sean
>
>

[Gerasim Troeglazov]

The first attempt to write a native media-addon. EQ 10 bands.
Everything works fine.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4494939/ScreenShots/26.09.2012/10bandEQaddon.png

2012/9/25 Gerasim Troeglazov <3deyes-***@public.gmane.org>

> VST is a proprietary format. To compile the plugins required Steinberg
> SDK, which can not be included in the projects.
> LADSPA or LV2 much better.
>
>
> 2012/9/23 Sean Collins <smc.collins-***@public.gmane.org>
>
>> Gerasim Troeglazov wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> About QT and the question asked above: the new build based on 4.8.3
>>> release for alpha4 will be available next week.
>>>
>> This is awesome news. Will it have a more updated QTwebkit ?
>>
>> As to your other comments, I understand your motivation. Have you
>> considered looking at the dsp plugins used by VST, LDAP and the other open
>> formats ? Would be very neat to have those available, and would be good
>> practice to boot.
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>

[Stephan Aßmus]

Am 26.09.2012 11:00, schrieb Gerasim Troeglazov:
> The first attempt to write a native media-addon. EQ 10 bands.
> Everything works fine.
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4494939/ScreenShots/26.09.2012/10bandEQaddon.png

Very cool!

A long time ago, I had the idea that MediaPlayer could look at the
"dormant nodes" installed in the OS and offer to plug them into its
media node connections. For example, the Video and Audio menu of the
main window could each have two entries "Output" and "Filters". In it,
they would list the dormant nodes MediaPlayder finds via the Media Kit
API that are capable of accepting the respective MediaPlayer producer
node output.

Filters are the nodes that are themselves node outputs again and can be
plugged into the active output. Outputs are (additional to the
"Internal" entry) the nodes that are only node inputs. (Confusing
relative terminology, but I think I've got it right.)

This way, MediaPlayer output (or even just the output from a certain
instance) could be re-routed, for example to a video output node (Rudolf
once made one for a second graphics card installed in the system), or to
another sound card that is not the default sound card.

I think it would be more approachable for users than using Cortex to
achieve the same thing. And perhaps MediaPlayer is better suited to
dealing with and recovering from errors in the connection setup.

What do you think?

Best regards,
-Stephan

[Gerasim Troeglazov]

I think it's a great idea. When I finish LV2 and VST plugins then try to
write different video filters - brightness-contrast, saturation,
deinterlace, etc...

2012/9/26 Stephan Aßmus <superstippi-***@public.gmane.org>

> Am 26.09.2012 11:00, schrieb Gerasim Troeglazov:
>
> The first attempt to write a native media-addon. EQ 10 bands.
>> Everything works fine.
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/**4494939/ScreenShots/26.09.**
>> 2012/10bandEQaddon.png<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4494939/ScreenShots/26.09.2012/10bandEQaddon.png>
>>
>
> Very cool!
>
> A long time ago, I had the idea that MediaPlayer could look at the
> "dormant nodes" installed in the OS and offer to plug them into its media
> node connections. For example, the Video and Audio menu of the main window
> could each have two entries "Output" and "Filters". In it, they would list
> the dormant nodes MediaPlayder finds via the Media Kit API that are capable
> of accepting the respective MediaPlayer producer node output.
>
> Filters are the nodes that are themselves node outputs again and can be
> plugged into the active output. Outputs are (additional to the "Internal"
> entry) the nodes that are only node inputs. (Confusing relative
> terminology, but I think I've got it right.)
>
> This way, MediaPlayer output (or even just the output from a certain
> instance) could be re-routed, for example to a video output node (Rudolf
> once made one for a second graphics card installed in the system), or to
> another sound card that is not the default sound card.
>
> I think it would be more approachable for users than using Cortex to
> achieve the same thing. And perhaps MediaPlayer is better suited to dealing
> with and recovering from errors in the connection setup.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Best regards,
> -Stephan
>
>
>

[Sean Collins]

Gerasim Troeglazov wrote:
> I think it's a great idea. When I finish LV2 and VST plugins then try
> to write different video filters - brightness-contrast, saturation,
> deinterlace, etc...
>
>
Keep us in the loop, its good to see things like this come to Haiku, it
needs these little items. Is this something that will be able to be use
like aplugin type format ?


Sean